Curse

Kylie Minon · May 14, 2006, 08:28 AM // 08:28

While i agree with you that an optimistic vision is always better, i want to stress my personal opinion on some issues:

* The consumer-friendly Factions point of view is yours, strictly personal, and only shared by PART of this community: i am aware by reading this very forum that some people do not feel Factions is consumer-friendly... specially Chap.1 owners.
The general claim is that GW:F forces you to grind factions to really enjoy the game... some people might find this amusing, and some might not.
If these claims are wrong or right seems to depend on each and everyones opinion, a very variable issue as we see.

* The competitive capability of players buying one or more products is still unknown: could you seriously state that from this moment on there will be no nerf/buff on any skill/weapon/armor of Factions?

* I really don't know if Factions has not screwed over people who simply wish not to buy factions. I can tell you that the main issue here is people who BOUGHT Factions and feels screwed.

* I look to your post and i can say that you really love and enjoy GW, then why you compare it with the very game Anet tried to differentiate from its very beginning?

* IMHO, Factions is not "different"... Prophecies was.

* While is true that Factions has a lot of good things and you don't see too many people posting about that, the things you recognize as "fair complaining" (Alliance Battles, player communication, grouping or trading) were supposed to be "perfect" because they are KEY COMPONENTS of Factions, or VERY EXPECTED, MUCH-ANTICIPATED UPGRADES from the Prophecies Campaign. This is when the "broken" feel kicks in.

* While there has been some destructive criticism, many people stated possible solutions, based on their view of the issues.

* FIRST QUOTE:
"Guild Wars Factions was confirmed to have had started development after Factions release, so in the end it would most likely have gotten one year worth of development, minus the shipping out to retailers period. I think most game developers would say that, that is incredible, incredible short time for any game to be developed. Let alone an RPG, and let alone again an Online RPG which are notorious for taking many years due to the amazing complexity of writing code on persistent servers and netcode. Perhaps with that in mind, more reasonable expectations should have been set by the community?
* SECOND QUOTE:
When I look at Factions I think I see a game that defintely is not perfect. I think there is still some very essential problems with the core mechanics of Guild Wars, in some ways, like the social systems like grouping/trading/communication/interacting and perhaps aswell as introduction to the PvP.
** I believe that FIRST QUOTE is absolutely true, but i also believe that peoples "reasonable expectations" from First Quote were at least that some of the problems you mention on SECOND QUOTE were solidly solved. People expected, IMHO, Anet was wise enough to recognise this expectations as important issues to address with Factions and simply deal with them.

* QUOTE:
But at the same time im also very intrigued by what Factions have to offer that truly sets it apart. To me it looks like that the team at ArenaNet listened to allot of complaints about the first core game. For example Factions has much bigger areas. It feels much less on rails and allow you to much more move freely, which in my mind gives a consistent cohesive feel.
** I have seen posts on this forum stating exactly the opposite: some people even used the expresion FedEx Guild Wars.

* QUOTE:
After all this game was designed to not be a grind.
** I have seen many posts on this forum stating exactly the opposite.

* True: nobody was pointed with a gun to their face, and threatned to buy Factions... people just had what is called "blind faith" on ANet.

* People are just doing what Gaile told them to do: "Wait, and if it seems wrong to you, complain..."

* If Alliance Battles are "flawed by dynamic and concept" ... Is it correct for certain people to have access to this "uniqueness"?
Wouldn't be the right thing to do to correct the flaw or change the concept and then offer access to this content?
Weren't Alliance Battles a KEY CONCEPT of Factions?
Is it good that a KEY CONCEPT on a game is flawed?

This are just questions i am asking to myself and i wanted to share them with all of you. Many of them express a personal opinion, which of course can be different from yours.

Regards,

Lawnmower · May 14, 2006, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Thanks for your kind words

Quote:

Wouldn't be the right thing to do to correct the flaw or change the concept and then offer access to this content?

I don't know, mate. You ask many good questions, but to be fair I don't understand what the developers was doing while thinking this up.

I could imagine that they wanted to adress the lack "grind" or "thing" that some people could do by doing this.
We have to remember that Chapter 3 which is made by the original team(does who made GW:P) is going to focus on totally different things. That expansion won't(most likely) have faction war and large battles.
I think there are endless ways to look at it, and maybe ArenaNet tried to attract a totally new kind of gamer with this game.

FoxBat · May 14, 2006, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

Thanks for your kind words

We have to remember that Chapter 3 which is made by the original team(does who made GW:P) is going to focus on totally different things. That expansion won't(most likely) have faction war and large battles.

Chapter 2 was made by half the original team, chapter 3 is being made by the other half.

It was already stated that each chapter will introduce a new tournament (i.e. competitive) style. And if they are going to make you pay for it, that means its likely going to be somewhat limited to your PvE characters... and somehow of interest to them in terms of PvE rewards rather than balthazar faction.

Loviatar · May 14, 2006, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Chapter 2 was made by half the original team, chapter 3 is being made by the other half.
.

NO

they did not split the team in half.

if you read it you would have noticed they hired many more people to take up the additional load.

SilentAssassin · May 14, 2006, 08:59 PM // 20:59

...can't say anything for the moment...

You just said what thousands of ppl are thinking

Overnite · May 14, 2006, 09:49 PM // 21:49

ANET gets all sad and depressed from reading the complaints, it's hard to work with tears in your eyes so Factions came out to be short and buggy.

Instead of defending ANET against unhappy customers fanboys should send them another $10000 worth of cookies to cheer them up (along with money for chapters 3 to 10).

Chilly Ress · May 14, 2006, 10:04 PM // 22:04

I loved the post, diagreed with some opinions, but that is good! Means the world is right, I, personally, am among the Faction lovers. I love GW as a whole, and even though Factions was [better] than Prophecies, imo, I respect everypne's opinion otherwise. I hope everyone will atleast try out Factions, who knows?

Andy_M · May 14, 2006, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Oh right, it just seems that only half a team made it.

hehehehe

GedePod · May 14, 2006, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Chapter 2 was made by half the original team, chapter 3 is being made by the other half.

It was already stated that each chapter will introduce a new tournament (i.e. competitive) style. And if they are going to make you pay for it, that means its likely going to be somewhat limited to your PvE characters... and somehow of interest to them in terms of PvE rewards rather than balthazar faction.

From what I could understand from the 1up e3 podcast, the expansion would have an entirely different focus

Tijger · May 14, 2006, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Overnite

ANET gets all sad and depressed from reading the complaints, it's hard to work with tears in your eyes so Factions came out to be short and buggy.

Really? It didnt seem short to me, maybe because I actually bothered to play the game..ah well. As for buggy, I've encountered them, I've also encountered bugs in any game I've ever played and very few had them fixed within hours.

Quote:

Instead of defending ANET against unhappy customers fanboys should send them another $10000 worth of cookies to cheer them up (along with money for chapters 3 to 10).

And instead of stabbing at Anet from your basement you could ofcourse act like and adult...or perhaps not.

I dont fully agree with the OP but I do agree Factions is worth the pricetag, my wife and myself are enjoying it and will continue to do so for some time to come.

imortal · May 15, 2006, 12:13 AM // 00:13

A very detailed and quality post about something that needed to be said. Its about time us optimist started speaking up and letting anet know how good a job they did. / Hat off Bravo.

GloryFox · May 15, 2006, 03:33 AM // 03:33

Yes thank you Lawnmower although I disagree on some things said.

In perspective 5% of the issues (12v12 Elite missions access, Gates to Towns, etc) have caused 95% of the issues. That said I think factions is great considering the Armor improvements, better henchmen and henchmen AI, New Classes, etc.

We may criticize a lot because we might be over zealous of the game we really do love. I know Anet reads these posts and I am sure they will respond to the Game base when they can.

HEY at least there is no town plague like there was in WOW. So it could be worse.

Akhilleus · May 15, 2006, 03:38 AM // 03:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotact

i have had the game for 10 months: How many games has anyone owned for that long and still cant wait to get home from work just to play it.
Guild Wars is the only game i have had for so long and still get withdrawalls if i go too long without it.
Easily the best game i have ever played.

i played starcraft like a religion for 7 years.

that having been said; factions doesnt have many issues, but the issues it does have are, generally, major ones...and unfortunatly, seem to be issues that they have no intention of fixing.

Ken Dei · May 15, 2006, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Playing devil's advocate here, so be nice.

I commend the effort, and agree there has been flaming in excess. No arguement there. (Still working on reading the whole thing, it is long, so don't jump down my throat)

However, there is a difference between genuine "complaints" and "flaming"

All flames are complaints; but not all complaints are flames.

What also holds true is that even "negative" feed back is "positive" feedback, so long as the company to which the feed back takes away the appropriate message.

I dislike how it seems that ALL persons who complain are lumped in with the crazy, out of control people. It's the responsibility of the customer to enlighten a company to mistakes that it has made, in a timely, and forceful manner. I would surmise that any decent player who cared about the future of the game, complains at one time or another.

The only thing that such a wave of dissapproval as has been seen recently proves is that something is wrong with the game that is of enough concern to warrent a response.

Regardless, a great post, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.

jules · May 15, 2006, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Bad English? You're kidding, right? You could do far worse than that.

Wessels · May 15, 2006, 11:24 AM // 11:24

While I agree with most of the article ( guild wars is my favorite game by far) I also agree with this point made :

Quote:

The general claim is that GW:F forces you to grind factions to really enjoy the game... some people might find this amusing, and some might not.
If these claims are wrong or right seems to depend on each and everyones opinion, a very variable issue as we see.

This sums up the only gripe I have with factions. In the original game you had the option to farm, in factions it's basically a requirement to progress. I'm still hopeful A-net will address this , but am not getting the impression it'll be changed ( by reading coments from Alex and Gaile the general feeling at A-net seems to be it's working well ) .

raptor · May 15, 2006, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Amen to the first post.

J3mo · May 15, 2006, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Great post,

But the alliance stuff is all ok

I rather have 4-4-4 vs 4-4-4 then 12vs12 cuz then ull get all those guilds there -_-' and the PvE ppl won't stand a change (And cmon this is kinda for the PvE ppl to gain their jadeite and amber)

But my problem with factions is, when u come to the mainland there is this city area.... it sucks !!
Its like a maze where you have to deliver packages (ill tell ya that aint nice).
Factions started for me when I entered the area outside Maatu Keep, When i did the kurzick mission Arborstone i went to the Luxon area bcuz that area appeals more to me then the Kurzick area.
Shing Jea Island is cool tho

Just the so called ''FedEx'' experience is bad(which i feel in the city area a lot), especially bcuz there is no sort of ''Droks run'' (Maatu Keep run for example),
U have to do it over and over again its just boring, bcuz it isnt a challenge just takes hell of a lot time.

amen

beanerman_99 · May 15, 2006, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Dei

Playing devil's advocate here, so be nice.

However, there is a difference between genuine "complaints" and "flaming"

All flames are complaints; but not all complaints are flames.

What also holds true is that even "negative" feed back is "positive" feedback, so long as the company to which the feed back takes away the appropriate message.

I dislike how it seems that ALL persons who complain are lumped in with the crazy, out of control people. It's the responsibility of the customer to enlighten a company to mistakes that it has made, in a timely, and forceful manner. I would surmise that any decent player who cared about the future of the game, complains at one time or another.

Agreed but...forceful manner?

I think that what most people have an issue with is how people complain on these forums. I will read a thought out post like this one whether it be a complaint or praise. What I get really sick of are the immature whiners saying "OMG anet plz nerf *****" or "OMG anet, this **** is teh suxxor". If people have complaints, fine, sit down and right like a normal human being and you will get more respect and attention to your complaint. Act like a 5 year old whiner and you will be treated accordingly.

I have said it before and will say it again. I personally think that Anet(god bless 'em) thought they were doing a great thing by telling us players a LOT about the content of Factions before it was released. They wanted to be "in touch" with the player community and that community turned around and bit the hand that was feeding them. Anet should stay in touch with comunity BUT when it comes to upcoming expansions I think silence would be prudent/golden. The less we know, the more excited we will be. The less we know, the more exploration and playing the game we will do. When I played Diablo 2 for years and years, players hated the fact that Blizzard kept their mouths shut about upcoming patches and such. Drove us nuts but in the end players were more satified IMO.

Its a fine balance. Too much talk can bite you in the butt and too little talk can make players think the Dev's don't care about them at all.

Cjlr · May 15, 2006, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Although I agree with most of the sentiment, I did resent a little the generalization of all players into the silent fanboys and the raving flamers... But of course, that's inevitable. It is impossible to discuss millions of people without generalizations, and they are pretty well grounded in fact (as generalizations go).

Your english was as good as most people's that I've met. Of course, the vast majority of people who speak english as a first language write it horribly, so maybe that's not saying much. But nonetheless, take the compliment. I can get my ideas across in French and ask where the bathroom is in Russian, but I sure can't write that well in a second language.

It's nothing new, though. People complained a lot when GW originally came out. People have complained a lot in the past year. The game is vastly better than it was at release. Anyone here can tell you that. But regardless of all that it's still far and away much better than the vast majority of games released. And I think we can all agree on that, no matter how much we might complain.